Talk: The Bill Cipher Zodiac

Rename

I'm pretty sure when I recreated the article I didn't name it this. i think it should be put back to "Wheel of Intrigue" because that name is canon. "The Bill Cipher Wheel" was a name made up by fans. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. If it really is called the Bill Cipher wheel then can I see a link confirming that? OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 21:06, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

I've never seen "wheel of intrigue" as canon. Source? YazzyDream★ 07:28, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

themysteryofgravityfalls.com OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 10:56, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

That's a fansite. And the creator made the name up. YazzyDream★ 16:48, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Oh okay. Sorry I didn't know that. Could we at least make a redirect "Bill Cipher Wheel" because some people might not bother typing in "the". OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 17:15, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Sure. Np. YazzyDream★ 22:12, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Wait so I thoguht we were gonna keep the page as "The Bill Cipher Wheel" and make a redirect titled "Bill Cipher wheel." So is this page supposed to be named "The Bill Cipher Wheel?" OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 12:18, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

Stan's symbol

So was the symbol on the wheel representing Stan's hat originally just a crescent, or was it the PacMan-like thing? OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 17:48, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

It was the crecent. It was updated later to match Stan's fez change. You can check it out in the theme gallery if you like. :) YazzyDream★ 22:27, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

appearances

Should the theme song not count as an appearance? Should the appearances only be the ones we actually see in episodes? OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 18:54, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

So if it appeared in the theme song, doesn't that not count as an episode appearance? I thought appearing in the theme song was a whole different thing than appearing in the theme song. By that logic, Waddles is in every single episode because he is in the theme song. Mr B^{Knew _yourfather _{I did!}} 22:18, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you. That was my question. :P

OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 18:37, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Not every theme song?

I thought I heard someplace a while back that the wheel was not flashed in one of the episodes, Irrational Treasure I think. Is this true? Mr B^{Knew _yourfather _{I did!}} 22:18, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

I just checked, and it is in Irrational Treasure. Peacexfreedom (talk) 01:21, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Speculation?

My apologies for commenting on this when I don't contribute to this wiki, but should there be this much fan speculation included in the article? While some of these are practically confirmed (Dipper, Mabel, Soos) and others seem fairly obvious (G. Stan, Robbie, GIdeon), the rest seem to be pretty up in the air. Besides Mabel and Pacifica, I've seen people consider Lebam, Manly Dan, Wendy, Waddles, and Gompers for the llama, and for the ice bag, Thompson, the ice monster, Pacifica, the shapeshifter, Blendin, and even Dipper. Whether the hand or the glasses represent the author and who owns the other one is another curious topic.

There's quite a variety of fan theories, and even more so outside of the wheel. To list them all seems like too much of a hassle, especially when so many of them would be deleted with new information, and to only list a few seems biased, and would likely give people the wrong impression, considering people generally seem to look at wikis for facts. (I once saw a few people believing Gideon had a brother simply because of one person's edit to the article.)

Again, I don't contribute to this wiki and don't know your policies on this sort of thing, I just thought I should bring this up. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

TechSkylander1518 (talk) 19:03, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Just noticed the Wendy part. That definitely shouldn't be there. The part with the llama however I think is ok because Pacifica and Mabel are definitely the most likely, and we also put potentially neither. The ice bag has about no evidence for anything so that Wendy part should be removed. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 21:13, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for removing the part about Wendy, but this seems more like a matter of opinion now. People have differing opinions on what theories are more likely and what counts as evidence. (I could list examples if you'd like but I think that's beside the point) It seems rather biased to feature two ideas more than others. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 21:48, March 28, 2015 (UTC) 

Not really considering that those two have actual evidence to back them up. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 21:52, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Again, what you consider 'evidence' is not what everyone considers evidence. And if we're calling being associated with a symbol evidence, as that seems to be the only reason to consider Mabel a candidate, I see no reason why none of the other theories listed lack 'actual evidence'. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 22:01, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

The evidence is that we actually see these symbols with the people listed. Manly Dan is never seen with a llama. The shapeshifter all though having been frozen is never seen with a bag of ice. If you wanna argue wax Larry King I'd say put it in trivia since he's never actually been seen with one. Point being that... I dunno. Seeing is believing? Something like that. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 01:22, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

If we want to say it needs to be more specific than just ice in general, Pacifica's llama might not count either, as it's not much like the one on the wheel. Even if we do count that, there's still the teens, Dipper, and Blendin who were with a bag of ice. And Wax Larry King was in the room with the llama hair sweater. 

Again, I'm not saying I think these theories should be included in the article as well, I'm saying that I think the ones currently in should be removed, as it's too uncertain at the moment. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 05:39, April 4, 2015 (UTC)

Here are my guesses.

Six-fingered hand: Stanford Pines aka The Author

Normal star: Lil' Gideon

Pine tree: Dipper

Claw: Stanley Pines/Grunkle Stan

Ice bag: Wendy

Question mark: Soos

Glasses: Old Man McGucket

Heart: Robbie

Shooting star: Mabel

Llama: Pacifica

But this is speculation. I could be right or wrong (most likely right) but I guess we'll have to keep watching. AndyMouse (talk) 15:08, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

on Pacifica and the llama

There seems to be a bit of a mini edit war going on as to whether Pacifica should be mentioned under the llama. Can we maybe all agree that if she's going to be mentioned in relation to the llama, we should make sure the page mentions why instead of just listing her without any explanation? It took me going over to Google just to figure out why anyone was connecting her to the llama because every time I've looked at this page, she's been listed with no explanation.

On a related note, is that painting of a llama in Northwest Mansion Mystery the only example connecting Pacifica and llamas, or are there more I've missed? KaraTutiiro (talk) 06:33, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Pacifica being the llama just needs to be confirmed by the creators in some way. by twitter or in the series itself. Bill confirmed that Dipper, Mabel and Soos were on the wheel by calling them by their symbols in Dreamscaperers but it shouldn't be removed as speculation on the Cipher Wheel page. Psychoking (talk) 08:03, 12 July 2015

No one should be adding Pacifica or Wendy or any other unconfirmed symbols. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 13:53, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand all of your logic here. We can't list Pacifica has the llama because its considered speculation? But isn't everything on the wheel speculation? I mean, the only canon information we have is that Dipper is the Pine Tree, Soos is the Question mark, and Mabel is the Shooting Star because that's what Bill calls them in Dreamscapers. So if we can't list Pacifica as the llama due to speculation, shouldn't that mean we should remove all the other speculation on the page too?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Screamteamcreator (wall • contribs) 14:25, July 12, 2015‎

People remove the edits because there isn't enough clear evidence to support that Pacifica is llama. I understand that she was near a portrait of a llama but there were other clues to other characters that made people believe otherwise in the past like Mabels llama sweater and Larry Kings commentary on llamas. the whole war is similar to the ice bag on the accounts of the paranormal or oddities like blendin and the ghosts. People only believed Wendy is the ice bag due to her personality. I didn't literally mean change the article to add Pacifica onto the wheel in my first comment. it was a figure of speech. Psychoking (talk) 15:52, 12 July 2015

Given that some people have very strong opinions on these theories, and casual users who come across the page and don't see their favorite theory are likely to keep adding it back in without ever looking at this talk page, maybe it might be wise to add a speculation section to the article? We can leave Dipper = pine tree, Soos = question mark, and Mabel = shooting star in the main description section, and put stuff like Wendy's connection to the ice and Pacifica and/or Mable's connections to the llama in the speculation section. Obvious but technically unconfirmed ones like the symbol from Stan's fez being Stan, the heart being Robbie, and the glasses being the Author could go either way; I'd vote for leaving them in the main description, but I don't think it matters all that much as long as we're consistent. KaraTutiiro (talk) 20:18, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

There is a wiki for Gravity Falls theories. That's not this wiki. If we put down speculation then this page would be a mile long. Some people think the ice bag is TOBY for pete's sake. We'd be here forever. We're supposed to give the facts. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 20:58, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

To be a bit more clear: the only characters who should be listed on the Wheel are Dipper, Mabel and Soos. That's it; no more debate. Mr B^{Knew _yourfather _{I did!}} 00:11, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

That is a perfectly valid position to take, but in that case you might want to consider restricting who can edit the page to admins only (I'm assuming Wikia has this functionality, since it's, like, kind of important sometimes). Otherwise, I suspect that people will keep coming along and adding their preferred theories back in without ever checking the talk page, and having to constantly watch for and revert those changes seems like an unneccessary waste of time. Just a suggestion. KaraTutiiro (talk) 00:48, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

In the new trailer for Weirdmageddon part 3 Pacifica is shown to be wearing Mabels llama sweater (the same one that Mabel wore in Hand That Rocks the Mabel). Should this be added to the page for Pacifica as the llama or should the page be left as it is for now because she is only seen wearing it in the shack and she isn't seen anywhere else in the trailer. ThePuppeteerKing(talk ) 19:38, 21/01/2016

Yes, this will be added; however, it will not say "Llama-Pacifica-Pacifica wears it in "Weirdmageddon 3." It will say "Llama-Pacifica wears it in "Weirdmageddon 3." We can't speculate that this necessarily means that Pacifica is the llama; we can only say what is for sure. Mr B^{Knew _yourfather _{I did!}} 02:58, January 23, 2016 (UTC)

The Last Mabelcorn

I'm wondering whether or not we should add The Last Mabelcorn as a sighting. They had what looked like an ancient Cipher Wheel. Do you think we should add it or not? OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 12:19, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

No, none of the symbols are on the TLM version. It's just Bill. Mr B^{Knew _yourfather _{I did!}} 02:56, January 23, 2016 (UTC)

Confused

Can I please ask where McGucket's theories come from? 

Haydossy (talk) 05:36, January 5, 2016 (UTC) Haydossy

Rename to Zodiac

Support —The "Bill Cipher Wheel" is conjecture, just another fan made name (at the time this is being written anyway). It was literally said in the series finale that the wheel is called the Zodiac. Obviously, I'm not above adding the "Bill Cipher Wheel" as a redirect, as long as the page doesn't have a fan dubbed name...--Topdarlingwh (talk) 23:29, February 27, 2016 (UTC)

Support — Although I would prefer a name more specific than simply "Zodiac" (Maybe "Bill Cipher Zodiac"? I don't know). But for now, "Zodiac" is better than the current name. Mr B^{Knew _yourfather _{I did!}} 01:04, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

We should rename it "Zodiac Prophecy Wheel", as it was mentioned previous times by both Ford and Bill that Weirdmageddon was the result of a Billion Year Old Prophecy.

R.J.Swindle (talk) 01:34, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Support — Though will it be "Zodiac" or "The Zodiac"?--Peacexfreedom (talk) 01:45, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Comment — "Zodiac" for naming purposes similar to "Gremloblin" page.--Topdarlingwh (talk) 02:01, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

Comment — Mkays. Just curious. Support still stands. --Peacexfreedom (talk) 02:03, February 28, 2016 (UTC)